Wednesday, November 03, 2010

Bishop Hanson: It Gets Better

Bishop Hanson speaks about the recent deaths/murders on individuals who were gay or perceived as being gay.


Kristy said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
chros said...

Being bullied is awful. I was bullied in school and it was no picnic. However, though people should not be bullied for any reason, for it's always wrong, I disagree with this bishop's statement that suggests God made people gay. Being gay is a sin, just like bestiality, sex outside of marriage, etc... Sexual immorality is a sin and it's black and white in scripture. I hope your church votes God's way in the upcoming vote (not what is "cool" or "radical") to stay with the elca or not. I am discouraged that you are so wrapped up in making Jesus "cool" and popular in the eyes of the secular world rather then teaching what God's inspired inerrant word does. You blame conservatives for driving people from church, but I ask, should we "itch" their ears and tell them what they want to hear or should we tell them the truth?

I am reminded of 1 Corthians 6:9-11 9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Was Paul lying or will these people who continue to do these things as the character of their lives not inherit the kingdom of God? You "warned" me once not to take scripture literally. Then how do we take it? It's black and white here, you believe it or don't. It's not a happy fluffy message, that's why so many rejected it then and now. I pray you listen to God and not secular society.

Thoughts From Jeff said...


So, what is God's way in the vote ? If everyone knew what God's way was for the vote, it would make the informational meetings and vote day much simpler for people who are in angst over seeing the body of Christ splintered.

I am not sure where you get that I am wrapped up in cool and popular. So, I would strongly disagree with your assessment.

I think that our definitions of "itching" the ear is different.

What I see is loving/accepting them for who they are and listening to their story and then showing them how their story is about God's redemption story. I think that was the approach of Jesus. It is not about slamming them from the beginning or using a bullhorn on the street and telling them that they are going to hell. I would say put down the bullhorn and take them out to dinner and listen to them and show them God's love and then let the Spirit do its job as it is stated in the verse (11) that you use, because we have all sinned and God's Spirit will wash/cleanse us.

Charos, you ask that I listen to God and not secular society. I have prayed 100's of hours on this situation; so I ask, how do you know that the decision that I came to is not from God and that my decision is based on listening to him and that I am not listening to secular society.

On warning on literal, yes, I believe that there are aspects of the scripture that do not need to be taking literal: food, appearances, cutting off your hand and more ....

chros said...

As far as voting, homosexuality is a sin yet the elca wants to ordain and allow gay pastors. This does not like up with Paul's teachings on leaders and elders in 1 Timothy. My problem is with the liberal churches accepting this as the norm and even embracing the "gay rights" movement when scripture is clear that being gay is sin as well as pride. Forgive me if I speak out against this topic but it will ruin many lives if we just allow this to bleed in everywhere. What's next? Do we ordain pedophiles because "God made them that way"? Or maybe murderers?

I never said scream at people with bullhorns about gays going to hell, we are to win them with love, but we also cannot deny the truth that what they do is against God's will and calling for them.

As far as how Jesus dealt with people like this, look at the woman at the well in John 4. Jesus addressed her sin in the first encounter and conversation with this woman. Same with the Pharisees in many occasions. The rich ruler walked away because of his self righteousness and greed. Notice that Jesus did not yell at this young ruler as he walked away and said hey wait, come back and let's discuss this. So was Jesus in need of some sensitivity training or a good evangelism course?

What would your definition of "itching" ears be? Because your church wants to tell people that being gay is fine and dandy. Since that goes against scripture and what post-modern secular society is embracing it seems it would indeed be "itching" their ears by telling them what they want to hear rather then what is the truth.

So if we don't take the Bible literal, are you one of the ones that deny say, the creation account? It could be 7 days or 7 billion years? If so, what chapter do you start believing? Maybe 6, or is the flood just an old "tale" too that never happened?

The hand cutting in context is implying to go to the extreme to cut sin out of our lives. Many commentaries will agree to this as well as great teachers from the past such as Wesley and Spurgeon as well as many today such as MacArthur, Lutzer and Sproul. Cutting of the flesh was an extreme used by Jesus to show the severity of sin in our lives and the need and calling to cut it out. As far as appearances and cutting hair, well Jesus did fulfill the ceremonial law did He not? Yet we are still under the moral law.

Your comment to me as I sat by you a while back at a school thing has always bugged me. I asked you how your church went (the elca or not when you were at Zion in Wooster) and you said "the elca, we are liberal, anything goes". I wanted to ask you if that was a direct quote from Jesus but I could tell Kristy wanted me to keep my pipe shut. Lol. I don't write any of this to offend or ridicule in any way. But I am concerned seeing all these churches adopt views and opinions that are clearly unbiblical. That's serious, because the Bible is God's complete Word to us. If you have prayed 100s of hours over this that is great, commune with God and pray without ceasing, but are you implying that God told you something that goes against His written Word? My prayers are for you and your church, that it may be a church in the biblical sense rather then a group of people that gather on Sundays.

Thoughts From Jeff said...


Our church (from everything that I see/know) does not say that it is okay. We "rejected" the social statement and it is "on our books" that we will not accept a pastor who is gay. The denomination has opened the door for them, but each church has the "power" to choose for themselves.

There are not many "gays" who are ordained. I am sure that for most 1 is 1 too many but the numbers are very minute. The number that have applied for ordination since the vote - almost a year ago can be done on the fingers on your hand (from what I hear).